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	<title>Comments on: The class I belong to</title>
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	<link>http://sodsbrood.com/pilgrim/2005/05/19/the_class_you_belong_to</link>
	<description>Comeday morm and, O, you're vine! Sendday's eve and, ah, you're vinegar!</description>
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		<title>By: wadulisi/ melissa</title>
		<link>http://sodsbrood.com/pilgrim/2005/05/19/the_class_you_belong_to/comment-page-1#comment-408</link>
		<dc:creator>wadulisi/ melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 May 2005 06:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=194#comment-408</guid>
		<description>I assumed for a long time that I *was* where I grew up, like my peers from a school district that was suburbanizing, which had good dollars because of those increasing professional residents.  But after teaching university courses for four years with many kids from those types of &#039;roots&#039;, I realized how very different our growing-up conditions were--between family structures and economic situations.  So, while I was educated alongside a version of similar students, few of those had divorced parents and a single mom on welfare going to school.  And fewer yet had to worry about figuring out their own college funding.  

I guess the &#039;thing&#039; that continues to hover, even after all these years of grad school which makes possible all kinds of ways to employ myself with a decent wage, is &#039;the fear&#039;--that tightening grip in the chest when I think if my account is empty, if some major expense presents itself.  No financial net with the comfie parents or siblings or whatnot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I assumed for a long time that I *was* where I grew up, like my peers from a school district that was suburbanizing, which had good dollars because of those increasing professional residents.  But after teaching university courses for four years with many kids from those types of &#8216;roots&#8217;, I realized how very different our growing-up conditions were&#8211;between family structures and economic situations.  So, while I was educated alongside a version of similar students, few of those had divorced parents and a single mom on welfare going to school.  And fewer yet had to worry about figuring out their own college funding.  </p>
<p>I guess the &#8216;thing&#8217; that continues to hover, even after all these years of grad school which makes possible all kinds of ways to employ myself with a decent wage, is &#8216;the fear&#8217;&#8211;that tightening grip in the chest when I think if my account is empty, if some major expense presents itself.  No financial net with the comfie parents or siblings or whatnot.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://sodsbrood.com/pilgrim/2005/05/19/the_class_you_belong_to/comment-page-1#comment-407</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2005 16:33:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dawn, your father has always reminded of an extreme version of my mother.  She grew up dirt poor, too.  She grew up on a farm with nine sisters and a brother (eleven children total) and no indoor plumbing until she married my Dad.  I can remember using Grandma&#039;s outhouse as a child, which means there still was no indoor plumbing in the mid to late seventies.

As a result my Mom was always very frugal, too.  Growing up, I always had the feeling we weren&#039;t as poor as she claimed, and thus we didn&#039;t really have to live in a trailer and I didn&#039;t always have to wear hand-me-downs and cheap clothes (we never shopped for clothes at Pennys or Sears, or even K-Mart).  That feeling that we were &quot;purposefully poor&quot; occasioned some resentment of my parents, which I have since outgrown.  What&#039;s kind of ironic, though, is that in one of Mom and Dad&#039;s last fights before they divorced, I remember my Dad accusing her of being a cheapskate.  That sticks out in my mind.  He could use some of her frugalness now, though.  Since they divorced, he&#039;s been living it up a bit too much.  I can&#039;t even imagine the level of debt he carries, and I used to be pretty heavily in debt myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dawn, your father has always reminded of an extreme version of my mother.  She grew up dirt poor, too.  She grew up on a farm with nine sisters and a brother (eleven children total) and no indoor plumbing until she married my Dad.  I can remember using Grandma&#8217;s outhouse as a child, which means there still was no indoor plumbing in the mid to late seventies.</p>
<p>As a result my Mom was always very frugal, too.  Growing up, I always had the feeling we weren&#8217;t as poor as she claimed, and thus we didn&#8217;t really have to live in a trailer and I didn&#8217;t always have to wear hand-me-downs and cheap clothes (we never shopped for clothes at Pennys or Sears, or even K-Mart).  That feeling that we were &#8220;purposefully poor&#8221; occasioned some resentment of my parents, which I have since outgrown.  What&#8217;s kind of ironic, though, is that in one of Mom and Dad&#8217;s last fights before they divorced, I remember my Dad accusing her of being a cheapskate.  That sticks out in my mind.  He could use some of her frugalness now, though.  Since they divorced, he&#8217;s been living it up a bit too much.  I can&#8217;t even imagine the level of debt he carries, and I used to be pretty heavily in debt myself.</p>
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		<title>By: Dawn</title>
		<link>http://sodsbrood.com/pilgrim/2005/05/19/the_class_you_belong_to/comment-page-1#comment-406</link>
		<dc:creator>Dawn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2005 15:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=194#comment-406</guid>
		<description>Great discussion!  Guess I&#039;ll weigh in on my background too.

I have no clue how to categorize my class growing up.  We weren&#039;t poor; my dad made a decent enough wage as a lineman for the local electric company.  So I guess that means we were middle class, right?

But then there&#039;s the house we lived in.  When I was 5, my parents began renting an old farmhouse for $100 a month, rented it up until three years ago, in fact.  The owner (understandably) didn&#039;t care about the house, only the land he farmed, so he didn&#039;t do any upkeep though my father could if he wanted, and often did, especially patching the perpetually leaky roof.  

Anyway, to make a long story short (and I&#039;ve written about this quite a bit in memoir), the last 5 or so years my parents lived in the house, the house was really unfit to be lived in.  The wiring was shot, so Dad only operated the house on 1/3 of its electricity capability; the plumbing, which never had been good, got so bad that when I&#039;d come home to visit and have to use the bathroom, I&#039;d opt to drive over to the church and use theirs rather than figure out how to get anything substantial to flush; my parents sat in the living room under a load up blankets in the winter because the drafts (and furnace) were so bad; and as for the leaky roof, Dad had an elaborate system set up in my sister&#039;s old bedroom to catch the rain in tarps that funneled into enormous barrels.  When the barrels got full, Dad opened an upstairs window and dumped out gallons of water.

Part of me thinks these stories are funny, likes that they&#039;re part of my past.  That part of me is the part that&#039;s like my dad, the part that&#039;s a cheapskate, the part that has no shame, the part that thinks its funny when townspeople see him dumping water out of a window and that finds humor in a guest&#039;s inability to flush the toilet without having it overflow.

Most of me thinks all this is sad.  There&#039;s no reason we had to live like this, that my parents had to continue living in that place long after it was safe or comfortable to do so, which is what troubles me most, I suppose.  That my mom had to go without a better house for so long is what bothers me most, probably bothers me more than it does her.

Growing up, my Dad&#039;s family was the last in the area to get electricity, the last to get a toilet.  He grew up thinking himself poor, and perhaps he really was poor growing up.  &quot;The poor Burnses&quot;--that&#039;s how his family thought of themselves.  And they never got past that, even when Dad made enough money to be comfortably middle class.

We went to thrift stores all the time growing up (I used to hate it--Linda and Mom and I would sit out in the car and wait for Dad sometimes an hour or more), but we didn&#039;t buy our clothes there. Once a year, before school, mom drove Linda and I an hour to the mall and we bought our clothes at Penney&#039;s and Sears--not the cheapest, but not the most expensive either.  We bought what was on sale, and we didn&#039;t go overboard.  We were frugal with mom; with dad, we were cheap.

So what am I class-wise?  Eccentrically middle class, I suppose.  I choose to shop at thrift stores (though Goodwill&#039;s gotten expensive in recent years), I pull over to look at interesting objects being thrown out with the trash, and, yes, once in awhile I even climb inside a dumpster if things look really promising.  Yet I also love good food and can pay $12 for a good meal without thinking twice, something my parents never do even if Mom would enjoy it once in a while.  I won&#039;t eat Generios when I can eat Cheerios (yes, I am a name brand whore).  But for the most part, I don&#039;t think that much about money, or care that much about it, probably because I have enough of it.  

I know that I don&#039;t want to become my father who will haggle over an item marked $1 in a thrift store or at a garage sale because, frankly, it&#039;s not worth it, and $1 is probably a fair enough price, and if it&#039;s not, the most I&#039;ll lose out is ninety cents.  And I can afford to lose ninety cents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great discussion!  Guess I&#8217;ll weigh in on my background too.</p>
<p>I have no clue how to categorize my class growing up.  We weren&#8217;t poor; my dad made a decent enough wage as a lineman for the local electric company.  So I guess that means we were middle class, right?</p>
<p>But then there&#8217;s the house we lived in.  When I was 5, my parents began renting an old farmhouse for $100 a month, rented it up until three years ago, in fact.  The owner (understandably) didn&#8217;t care about the house, only the land he farmed, so he didn&#8217;t do any upkeep though my father could if he wanted, and often did, especially patching the perpetually leaky roof.  </p>
<p>Anyway, to make a long story short (and I&#8217;ve written about this quite a bit in memoir), the last 5 or so years my parents lived in the house, the house was really unfit to be lived in.  The wiring was shot, so Dad only operated the house on 1/3 of its electricity capability; the plumbing, which never had been good, got so bad that when I&#8217;d come home to visit and have to use the bathroom, I&#8217;d opt to drive over to the church and use theirs rather than figure out how to get anything substantial to flush; my parents sat in the living room under a load up blankets in the winter because the drafts (and furnace) were so bad; and as for the leaky roof, Dad had an elaborate system set up in my sister&#8217;s old bedroom to catch the rain in tarps that funneled into enormous barrels.  When the barrels got full, Dad opened an upstairs window and dumped out gallons of water.</p>
<p>Part of me thinks these stories are funny, likes that they&#8217;re part of my past.  That part of me is the part that&#8217;s like my dad, the part that&#8217;s a cheapskate, the part that has no shame, the part that thinks its funny when townspeople see him dumping water out of a window and that finds humor in a guest&#8217;s inability to flush the toilet without having it overflow.</p>
<p>Most of me thinks all this is sad.  There&#8217;s no reason we had to live like this, that my parents had to continue living in that place long after it was safe or comfortable to do so, which is what troubles me most, I suppose.  That my mom had to go without a better house for so long is what bothers me most, probably bothers me more than it does her.</p>
<p>Growing up, my Dad&#8217;s family was the last in the area to get electricity, the last to get a toilet.  He grew up thinking himself poor, and perhaps he really was poor growing up.  &#8220;The poor Burnses&#8221;&#8211;that&#8217;s how his family thought of themselves.  And they never got past that, even when Dad made enough money to be comfortably middle class.</p>
<p>We went to thrift stores all the time growing up (I used to hate it&#8211;Linda and Mom and I would sit out in the car and wait for Dad sometimes an hour or more), but we didn&#8217;t buy our clothes there. Once a year, before school, mom drove Linda and I an hour to the mall and we bought our clothes at Penney&#8217;s and Sears&#8211;not the cheapest, but not the most expensive either.  We bought what was on sale, and we didn&#8217;t go overboard.  We were frugal with mom; with dad, we were cheap.</p>
<p>So what am I class-wise?  Eccentrically middle class, I suppose.  I choose to shop at thrift stores (though Goodwill&#8217;s gotten expensive in recent years), I pull over to look at interesting objects being thrown out with the trash, and, yes, once in awhile I even climb inside a dumpster if things look really promising.  Yet I also love good food and can pay $12 for a good meal without thinking twice, something my parents never do even if Mom would enjoy it once in a while.  I won&#8217;t eat Generios when I can eat Cheerios (yes, I am a name brand whore).  But for the most part, I don&#8217;t think that much about money, or care that much about it, probably because I have enough of it.  </p>
<p>I know that I don&#8217;t want to become my father who will haggle over an item marked $1 in a thrift store or at a garage sale because, frankly, it&#8217;s not worth it, and $1 is probably a fair enough price, and if it&#8217;s not, the most I&#8217;ll lose out is ninety cents.  And I can afford to lose ninety cents.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://sodsbrood.com/pilgrim/2005/05/19/the_class_you_belong_to/comment-page-1#comment-405</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2005 12:27:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=194#comment-405</guid>
		<description>Bronwen, your perspective is really interesting.  Americans by and large certainly do not view their consumerism as an &quot;obsession.&quot;  I certainly don&#039;t, though consuming probably is an obsession with me.  I think this is something only someone from elsewhere in the world would notice.  Thanks so much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bronwen, your perspective is really interesting.  Americans by and large certainly do not view their consumerism as an &#8220;obsession.&#8221;  I certainly don&#8217;t, though consuming probably is an obsession with me.  I think this is something only someone from elsewhere in the world would notice.  Thanks so much.</p>
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		<title>By: Bronwen</title>
		<link>http://sodsbrood.com/pilgrim/2005/05/19/the_class_you_belong_to/comment-page-1#comment-404</link>
		<dc:creator>Bronwen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2005 11:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=194#comment-404</guid>
		<description>This is a really interesting conversation.  I have to add my two cents because my experiences are quite different and I&#039;m trying to work out if its a cultural thing or not.  I was raised in the country and my dad was a country pastor/minister.  He didn&#039;t make very much but there was great job security and we lived in a big church house and even though we were not well off I had a fantastic childhood.  We obviously never had the levels of poverty many of the people who have written here had, but I have always had a strong sense that its not stuff that matters.  Perhaps that is something someone who didn&#039;t come from abject poverty has the luxury of saying.  Also makes me realize just how dam lucky i was to be raised in the country I was raised in, public health system and all.

In terms of church, I have always tried to belong to churches that seek to keep me accountable for my rampant consumerism, and those churches have been both rich and poor.  The rich church i&#039;m going to now, unfortunately has almost no sense of this at all.

I do think there are cultural elements though.  I have never had such a sense of what I have or don&#039;t have until I moved to the US.  Its such an obsession here.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a really interesting conversation.  I have to add my two cents because my experiences are quite different and I&#8217;m trying to work out if its a cultural thing or not.  I was raised in the country and my dad was a country pastor/minister.  He didn&#8217;t make very much but there was great job security and we lived in a big church house and even though we were not well off I had a fantastic childhood.  We obviously never had the levels of poverty many of the people who have written here had, but I have always had a strong sense that its not stuff that matters.  Perhaps that is something someone who didn&#8217;t come from abject poverty has the luxury of saying.  Also makes me realize just how dam lucky i was to be raised in the country I was raised in, public health system and all.</p>
<p>In terms of church, I have always tried to belong to churches that seek to keep me accountable for my rampant consumerism, and those churches have been both rich and poor.  The rich church i&#8217;m going to now, unfortunately has almost no sense of this at all.</p>
<p>I do think there are cultural elements though.  I have never had such a sense of what I have or don&#8217;t have until I moved to the US.  Its such an obsession here.</p>
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